Ideas for a Revival?
This is a follow-up to my last topic. Given that the average age of many A1E participants has gone way up, and the number of handlers has gone down, what do we do to regenerate some interest in the fed?
Clearly, we cannot depend on Vince McMahon and his almighty WWE machine to create a new wrestling boom. It might happen. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. He could fall ass backwards into the next hottest thing, and it could all take off again. But we can't sit back and wait for that to happen.
If pro wrestling isn't hot enough to create an influx of new members to the A1 boards in general, how do we get new members into A1E?
Really, about the only thing we can do is get other handlers interested in our fed. In the past, many FW regulars as well as handlers from other feds have given us a try and not found the success they were looking for.
Is it the "A1E style"? Is it the voting system? Certainly can't be a lack of activity because the one thing we do still have is consistent turnout of shows.
Perhaps it does limit us somewhat to be living on A1 instead of FW or one of the other sites with multiple feds. It's not easy for visitors to tune in and keep up with us if A1 is not a regular stop on their internet tour each night.
One of the things Lindsay suggested when I was talking to her was to come up with a fed-wide angle that everyone could get behind. Create this huge angle that involves everyone on the card from top to bottom. Get people talking about it. Find a way to turn Fridays into "Must See TV".
Of course, that's easier to say than it is to do. Right now, the Highland Park Social Club seems to be the one catalyst on the card with Anarchy temporarily out of commission. But even the anti-HPSC Alliance has only grown to three members (a rebelling Andy Gilkison would be four). In general, most of the stuff surrounding that storyline occupies the upper midcard to the main event since it's generally hovering around the World and Tag titles right now.
How do we get something put together that lights a fire under Elim or Jack Gilkison? What do we do to fire up Eddie Weston? In short, what story can we come up with to totally turn the fed on its ear and get people outside of the small group of readers we already have to start checking us out?
Another idea that Lindsay had was to promote our #1 Contender Tournament on other circuits. Let guys come in and take a shot at it. It's usually good for getting at least one if not a couple new guys into the main event scene. Couple guys get hot and really take a strong run through, it gives them a chance to advance up the card. Last year, both JA and Farnswirth rode the elevator up to the penthouse. Today, they are fighting each other for the World Title. That's a nice story to tell.
So, this is more of a plea than anything else. I certainly don't have all the answers. What do people think out there? What is it that A1E can do to spark some outside interest?
Can't promise we'll act on everything, or really anything for that matter since that's Roger's call. But I figured it couldn't hurt to throw this out there and see what people think.
One e-high five and chest bump for the best idea somebody sends in.
posted by BigDaddy @ 8:53 PM
25 comments
25 Comments:
I don't really love the full fed angle thing, as I think it can be easy for people to fall through the cracks and feel left out when the angle direction takes precedent over individual character development. By definition a central fed-wide angle does tend to make all other programs secondary and that is not a good think when you are trying to generate enthusiasm.
I am also not huge of the idea of actively recruiting new talent into the #1 contenders tournament. One of the biggest gripes that outsider have had about joining A1E is that the "system" favors established A1E characters over newly debuted talent. And recruiting a bunch of new blood only to see them become disenchanted after the first round doesn't seem to be a winning formula to me.
What might work better - IMO - could be a program that focuses solely (or at least mainly) on establishing new talent in the fed. Perhaps a Battle Royal or something like that which is open only to characters with five or fewer A1E matches to their credit. The winner would gain notoriety for their huge "debut" win and perhaps another carrot could be tossed in as well. (I know for a fact that the current Cyber Champ could be convinced to sacrifice an extended title reign for the good of the company.)
In fact, if we do get a secondary belt involved, we could not only hotshot a newer character with a big title win, but we could actually regenerate a whole division by filling it out with ready programing from others that did well but fell just short in the battle royal.
Other than that we could all just make a concerted effort to recruit new folks in and work from the start to help build compelling and successful angles for them.
(I do like the Cyber Title newcomers battle royal idea thought)
The fedwide angle I brought up to Phil would be entirely individual character driven...which means people who don't normally do any sort of segment-work or outside character development might actually *shock*gasp* have to. You know me, I'm a big proponent of character development.
One of the biggest gripes that outsider have had about joining A1E is that the "system" favors established A1E characters over newly debuted talent.
Well, it's a vote-based fed so I don't think that initial view is entirely unsubstantiated. However, how exactly is A1E going to get new talent into the fed otherwise?
I like the Cyber Title battle royal idea, but how is that going to bring new talent in? It's not going to work UNLESS you get new talent in. The last time A1E had a complete outsider brought in was the Sarge. Before him I can't remember.
Unfortunately, it seems to me like A1E's new joinees come in through word of mouth (I mean, that's how I came into the fed in 2002), and if that person IMs someone else who may not like the fed to say "hey, I'm thinking about joining A1E", then they get bombarded with all the negativity. You guys have to find a way to break the cycle.
I also think part of it might be how A1E is perceived in other feds. I know I've thought about joining A1E with "The Dragon", only to see write-ups in feds I already read which have a character from A1E come in, heralded as "A coup! They're brilliant! They're the best thing since sliced bread!!!!!", and seeing those same characters come in and talk about how poor everyone else in the fed they've just joined is, whilst reliving feuds they've had already. I dunno, it kind of makes me feel like A1E is seen as some big, mystic place that only the absolute best ever have a chance of making it to the ring in. I also feel the same way when I see write-ups mentioning CSWA or other older feds - I know it probably sounds weird me saying this, but having nothing to do with those feds, I don't care if X and Y have met before, or if X slept with Z in some other fed, because it's a new fed, and should be a completely new canvas. If possible, I think it would help A1E if A1E wasn't mentioned so much incharacter as being some hallowed land - have someone from A1E come in, fresh slate, and show what they can do, with only OoC references to A1E, and it would help the image a lot. At least, in my mind it would. i'm weird like that :-p
-Karl
I agree with Karl on a couple of points. A1E to me as a brand new RPer seemed like a place where all of the elite in e-fedding hung out. Originally I thought there was no way that I could compete in either A1E or CSWA.
When I decided I wanted to try another fed other than EPW I ended up choosing A1E. That was when all of the negativity that Lindz talked about started hitting me... people basically told me that I wouldn't like it and wouldn't find even close to the success that I found in EPW (and I thought EPW was really tough). This set a mindset in me from the beginning that I would work hard and prove people wrong.
We all know the rest of that story and the mess that came of it. I won't rehash it. But, that is the sort of reputation A1E has. The vote system, the new guy (or girl) disadvantage... all of that.
I think one of the hardest things to overcome is the A1E board and how a character gets signed up to A1E in the first place. I know I was asking questions for two months before I figured out even the basics of how things worked there. Holzer, Brunk, and a few others can testify that I was asking a billion questions about how I was suppose to actually start competing, post a profile, etc. That's public enemy number one for A1E in regards to new talent.
I do think that I, with MCW, have a good model of how to get a roster quickly. Number one, I always post news and links at ENN and on the FW boards. That keeps MCW in good exposure and shows people that we are working to bring a great product.
Also, I am constantly trying to contact the people who did join to get their ideas, comments, and suggestions about the direction of MCW and their characters in particular. I'd like to think that because of that people talk to others about how active MCW is.
These are just a couple of ideas of how to get interest started. How to keep it or ultimately encourage people to stick around or add another character is up in the air. My only suggestion is that with the voting system emplaced, it will be difficult. I know the A1E regulars have debated that system forever and in great detail, too... so again I'll spare you further analysis.
You guys are getting another one of my characters in Drunken Tiger. There are some great angles that still are left to play out with the remainder of the roster. Keep posting things such as this and let the e-fed world know that you all are keeping things fun and entertaining in A1E. That is the best way of combating the negativity and getting some new talent involved.
true, James. so true. I try to talk about wrestling on one of those forums and people generally try to make me feel that I'm the biggest idiot on the face of the planet.
*commence rant*
Maybe what James said is right. Maybe A1E needs to go to another board. That way, they'll find some people who will actually do segment and character work on a pay-per-view card.
I've been in a lot of feds in my time in the hobby, and some of the more recent ones I've been in have had heat come on them because they're too segment-heavy. But y'know something? I'd much rather read a card that is "segment heavy" then read a card that DOES NOT HAVE ONE NON-MATCH SEGMENT ON IT.
I'm sorry for the people like James, who has done more than his share of character development and turned Erin into a female character that I actually like, and for Phil, Dan, Bill, Brunk, Tom, Roger, etc., who have had segments on cards in the past. But if I'm an outsider looking to join A1E for the first time and I look at their latest PPV card and see nothing but matches, I'm running as far away from the fed as I can. It looks like no one cares about anything other than showing up for the RP week, going through the motions and waiting for the next booking assignments.
I've been on that soapbox for years now, and when it looks like people are starting to get more involved and take the time to write segment pieces for shows, then we get a major card like Vengeance that has match after match after match and nothing else. A1E takes three steps forward and then takes five steps back.
Rip my comment to shreds, I don't care. But I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't agree with me.
I agree that segments are good to have on a card. In moderation. I've seen some cards which have segment/segment/segment/match/segment/match/segment/segment/match, etc, and that is ridiculous considering not everyone cares that much about the characters who are putting segments up. It makes it seem more like WWE if you get more than one segment from a character (two is a top figure IMO), and if the number of non-match segments is equal to the number of matches, I tend to stop reading the card.
Granted, I don't think every segment should be a match - but I'd rather read a match heavy card than a segment heavy one, because I'm more a fan of wrestling than I am segments. It's why I don't watch WWE that often any more and watch NOAH when I can - there's more wrestling and virtually no segments.
I guess on that, everyone's different, but the odd segment here and there can enhance a card. But too many, I'd say more than two or three on most cards, especially when it goes too deeply into the history or private lives of the characters, then is every bit as detrimental, if not more so, than having none at all.
IMO
-Karl
I don't like segment heavy cards either, but if someone gave me two cards to read: a PRIME card with a lot of segments or A1E Vengeance with no segments and all matches, I'm going to read the PRIME card. At least there people are participating in the fed and know that if they do segments on the card then they may get pushed a bit more.
To me, segments should mean something and not just be throwaway pieces put on the card for posterity. Segments should have a purpose for being there and I agree, sometimes WWE and efeds run segments that on the surface don't seem like they belong there. People who have 4-5 segments on a card are going way overboard, IMO. My limit is generally three because I don't want there to be a feeling of "overkill." Whatever segments I do have a purpose...either for the moment or for later on down the road.
Gilk got snippy with me on the A1E boards, so whatever...I got snippy back. Maybe no one thought they needed to do segments for a PPV card but excuse me for thinking that for a PPV there should be more than just matches going on.
Lindz...place this before the Vengeance card and then maybe you'll be happy...
Oh and at least be honest...you hacked on the card without even reading it. You said so yourself. You didn't read the card before you opened your mouth and commented. I want everyone to read that again...didn't read card...but ran mouth about it anyway.
At least have the decency to read the card before you comment on it. Jeez. I really expect better from you of all people Lindz. It would be like grading a paper without reading it because it was typed in a font you didn't enjoy.
Anyway...place this before Vengeance and then read it...
"The rain came down in blankets as the two ran from their cab to take their seats in the arena. Their hands brushed lightly and she felt the electricity shock through her all the way to her loins...she finally realized just what her favorite author Danielle Steele was talking about in all those books she read and stole writing ideas from.
She was here...she was at A1E's Vengeance PPV with the man that completed her. Oh how she hoped they would do away with all that silly wrestling though and just have segments backstage that would entertain her. After all this wasn't really a sport was it. This was a soap opera. She was here for that...not competition."
Now I hope you're happy.
Shane
It's basically a handler's market. The sheer number of feds just available on the ENN/FW/A1 circuit make it very difficult to attract new chracters. I don't think moving helps, as you will basically be drawing from the same crop of characters as every other fed on that circuit, and what A1E needs is actual new blood.
Say what you will about A1, and god knows I could say a lot, but it gives you a large pool of people to draw from. The e-fedding forums are so cut off from the rest of the boards that you might as well be on another site. Advertising on site first might not be bad idea, but I don't know if that will even help long term. You will need to either make converts or draw in other already dedicated handlers.
And, if I may be so blunt, that is simply not going to happen with the current booking and matchwriting. It's just not interesting. NFW has a card come out once a month (during a good month) but they have people chomping at the bit to join, because they are the most interesting card to come out each month. Everything makes sense (well, in Katz's head at least) and everybdy's character is taken care of. It's easy to care less about wins and losses and politics and biases if the show is consistently entertaining. A1E's matchwriting tends to be a little bit bland.
And I would suggest you appoint a BC member to oversee all angle development. That will be their only responsibility in terms of card preperation. To look over booked and finished shows and just see if the matches make sense. Is there a way to advance the angle better? Can I add a segment to get a character's heat back, and keep things interesting.
It's just disheartening to put as much work as I did into keeping the Fly/Hida program going, when it felt like I was getting no help from anyone on the BC, only to see my ideas either executed poorly or have weeks go by where I was in a holding pattern. And now, pretty much left with nothing to do, since Mr. A is not in the title tourney and programmed with Red, and I already had a second match with James.
Part of the problem with the two week schedule may be that it leads to a certain long term myopia combined with short-term pressure, but ultimately, handlers will take characters to the most interesting feds. A1E just isn't one of them right now.
"only to see my ideas either executed poorly"
So tell me, Jeff. In what way did we execute your ideas poorly?
Shane, seriously. Was that bit necessary? I don't recall anyone taking little sarcastic shots at you, not even when the logic of the invasion you tried to do fell right on it's ass.
So first off, it doesn't take reading a show to notice there aren't any segments, especially in the A1E posting format.
And secondly, let's act like grownups please.
"So tell me, Jeff. In what way did we execute your ideas poorly?"
Go back and read the A/Fly v. Spoiler/Hida match. My original idea, advanced very obviously in the promo week and coversations with Bill and Shane, was that Hida was going to be a disingenuous bastard the entire match, playing up the fact as melodramatically as possible that he didn't want poor little Fly hurt anymore. You know, be an actual heel. Instead, this is glossed over on commentary, and the action, for more Adventures of Spoiler and Hida, wacky mismatched tag partners.
I almost said to Bill that we should only do this angle if one of us wrote up the match, because of this, but frankly it is not our job to come up with and execute angles. But when the best I was given to work with by you guys was "Hida tapes clean to Jack Gilkison and then Fly runs-in" or "Fly yells at Hida on the A1Etron" in the whole three months I was running the angle, I figured I would have to take matters into my own hands. At a certain point it also became patently obvious that the end result of my program was Fly v. Spoiler, which didn't exactly enthuse me.
I'm sorry, Hida, but there was more added to the whole Fly/Hida angle than "Hida taps clean to Jack Gilkison and then Fly runs-in" or "Fly yells at Hida on the A1Etron" in the whole three months...
Yes the fued did start off slowly at first, due to me wanting Fly to have a couple of weeks off to build "anglewise" that he was recovering from an injured neck. Fly missed two weeks of the promo period, but he only missed one where he wasn't physically on the show. After that first week where Fly cut a promo on Hida every week following had one attack, or another, by Fly or Hida on each other building up the heat. There was even one week where Fly stood in the middle of the ring and called Hida out where the two brawled for bit before Hida took out Fly with a Hida Driver.
In fact, pure and simple, outside of the results of whenever Fly/Hida stepped into the ring, Hida looked far and away better than Fly did as Hida always appeared one step ahead.
I can completley understand how you can feel frustrated how you feel that things you would have like to been seen, or addressed, in our fued that wasn't there. But to be completely honest there were times where something happened in a segement the week before, where Fly or Hida may have gotten one over the other, and the very next week it was never addressed by you in your promos either... It works both ways.
Could things have come out better? Absolutely. Every angle, no matter how good it is or isn't can be done better.
But I personally don't feel that our fued came out nearly as bad you think it is. But that is just my opinion...
And on a side note, Mr. Amazing is in the "Best of A1E" tournament. The only reason why he's facing Red this week was because both of them wanted to do this match this week... If you looked at the card intro which has the brackets in it it shows that Amazing is in the tourny. Just an fyi.
-Fly
Honestly, moving away from A1 is a bad idea, IMO. Like Jeff said, we could stand to advertise a little more on-site, maybe alert some of the fantasy bookers in the Wrestling forum that we exist and stuff.
Phil gave me his permission to say what I have to say here, because there are some things that I feel need to be addressed publically and have been encouraged by others to do so.
Firstly, I need to stress that nowhere in my first post in the Vengeance feedback thread did I say that the Vengeance card was going to suck because it had no segments on it. Nowhere. If anyone got that impression then I'm sorry. I either miscommunicated myself or too much was read into it. Like Brunk said, it doesn't take reading a show to notice that there aren't any segments on it. I posted an initial thought and had every intention of reading the card after I got back home later on in the day. I no longer felt like reading the card on Saturday after Andy replied to my comment.
Maybe I should have waited until I read the card to post anything, but honestly I still would have been surprised at the lack of segments on it.
Really, my main reason for coming back to this entry is to address Shane's obvious "Danielle Steele" agenda.
It's no secret that Shane doesn't like what Steve and I write for Melton and Troy in an off-camera, non-wrestling capacity. He's not a fan of narrative, and that's perfectly fine. But I am honestly tired of hearing about his dislike of it whenever he feels the need to bring the subject up. I know there are other people who don't like the narrative style that Steve and I use for character development purposes but I've never heard of anyone or seen anyone publically lambast us for it.
I've talked to Shane about this and he tells me that he's just kidding around. Like it's a sort of "inside joke" between us. It's not perceived that way, though. An "inside joke" is Brunk and I quoting Disney movies in our RPs. Continuously flaming someone for choosing to write in one style or another isn't, nor will it stop either of us from writing this way.
I don't know if the solution is as simple as "if you don't like it, don't read it," but maybe it's good advice to follow in any event.
I think Lindz and Shane are going to have to agree to disagree on the whole narrative character development issue. I'm not a fan of seeing it on a wrestling card either (I prefer it to be in the non-event RP section on a forum personally as I feel it adds nothing to the card), but if I see it on a card, I tend to skip it the first few times I read through. It's the chocolate and vanilla thing.
As for helping A1E (which is what the initial post was about if I cast my mind back, lol), it might be an idea for the BC to ask people outside of A1E, from a lot of different areas of the e-fedding world, to look at the fed and say if they would join or not and why. I think it's pretty fruitless A1E people sitting around and saying "Why don't more people come along? I don't understand" because unless you talk to someone who is outside that circle, you won't really know why people don't sign-up there.
it might be an idea for the BC to ask people outside of A1E, from a lot of different areas of the e-fedding world, to look at the fed and say if they would join or not and why.
This is a good idea, but it should be done in a way that doesn't look like "spamming."
Jeff's suggestion of appointing one BC member to overseeing all angles is an excellent one. The person should work in conjunction with Roger on this, because Roger has a lot on his plate with running the fed in the first place. That way, there aren't too many people with their hands in the cookie jar and angles/feud build-up can be kept straight. The "Angle Advisor" reports back to the rest of the matchwriters and then everyone goes from there.
In terms of card cohesiveness, giving the BC an extra day or two to read through the card to make sure nothing was missed is a positive step. I think Jeff's suggestion would be taking another step forward.
Jesus H. Christ.
You're all going WAAAAAAAY WAAAAAAAY WAY WAY WAY overboard here.
Step back. Breathe. It's just text on the internet.
Not that it was asked for, but I'll also bring up that this whole thing isn't for money. It isn't for real belts or gold or fame or anything.
This is for fun.
That's all I'm gonna say. Hell, I can barely get myself to do this anymore. My brain just won't wrap around a serious style.
If you notice, the only times I ever do very well at all, or even bother to show up is when I'm having fun.
I'd suggest a few of you remember this.
Sorry if this sounds condescending, I just hate to see creative people that I've enjoyed working with get caught up in this petty bullshit.
Jon
Defending e-fed related stuff is a waste of time, I agree.
Defending a friend against someone persistently trying to drag the fun out of it is not. That's what I did, and what I will always do if needed. Personal attacks hurt on a personal level and are unnecessary. That's what was called out. I don't care enough about any show to argue about THAT.
Of course, also - being friends - this was discussed with Shane behind the scenes, too. And we know what was said by anyone wasn't meant to purposely attack anyone. Anger gets the best of us all at times.
First off apologies to all for my behavior the last few days. I tried to defend the A1E card and did so in an angry and unacceptable way. To my shame I attacked friends both publically and in private.
The last thing I will say about this is I really meant for it all to be a parody. I didn't ever intend to hurt anyone's feelings.
Now to the point of this Blog. Here's my thing. I see so many e-feds struggling to make it. I think that a melding of feds...a combination of the talents behind some struggling feds would benefit all. Cross promotions should help everyone. Say a series of matches between UCW and A1E. Not so much an invasion angle (God knows those don't work right Dave ;\ )but an actual working relationship between two federations.
There is an influx of people in UCW from the FW feds and I think given the proper platform all could perform well.
I know that EPW has dealt with the backlash of A1E superstars being given preferential treatment. I know Dave. That's not true. The bottom line is hard work and talent will always rise to the top of the card quicker.
From a BC standpoint I think that we need to have a more open door policy with all superstars but especially the new arrivals. None of what happened with Josh would have happened if the lines of communication would have been more open.
I know from what I have heard at least that new handlers, especially from the FW feds feel ostracized when they come to A1E. They feel like they will not get over. I think it's more just the human nature of people adjusting to promo styles in a vote based fed. I know how hard it is to walk into a new fed and do anything at all to gain heat.
I was helped when I joined MBE by Adrian or really I may not be in E-Fedding.
We need to mentor and support new people when they come in. All of us. If we really want to see A1E thrive and grow we need to not only actively recruit but reinforce the positive aspects of the federation. We need to assure people that although we cannot guarentee wins we can and will do everything we can to tell their story and see that they have equal footing and a more then fair opportunity to suceed.
Shane
My perspective on the whole thing:
http://a1ebeast.blogspot.com/
I've never taken a close enough look at A1e to decide whether or not it'd be worth while to join. On the surface, the voting system has never made sense to me for two reasons. 1) It's a popularity contest to easily manipulated. 2) Groups of E-fedders are hard pressed to agree on the same subject. Why ask them to vote on rp in a match?
I don't know how many fedheads there are. But have 2-3 people voting on each match. Allow people who want to angle book some matches to do so.
Also, it seems people who are in A1e are eternally unhappy. I realize there are people who will say the CSWA, fWo, EPW, or NFW isn't for them...but the negativity steaming from A1e is overwhelming and has been since i first heard of the fed.
As a handler I want to know the fedhead, what he likes, and slowly get to know the community. I want to know I have some creative freedom and won't be mobbed by pettiness. And nobody writes with my character unless it's approved. If I see my character on a segment on a card and I didn't know of it beforehand, I'm gone, and I'm never acknowledging anything that happened there.
Jeff said it best. You want new blood? Strive to put on better shows. Even if you think the work being done is the most creative on the web, work harder.
Have fun and breathe. Good advice.
I don't mind a match heavy, or match only card. IF the matches are well-written. Be it match or segment, its the quality of writing that will get me to join.
I'd like to think I can get Melton over on a card with just a match i've written. But, sometimes I like segments. The bottom line is show up and invest in your character. I dont know the A1e format, if people are encouraged to write matches or if the BC writes everything. If it's just the BC writing...I wouldn't want them writing for my character outside of a match. And again if it's well-written a match heavy(only) card and be great.
Is there a website? A website can be a good too to easily float to other communities, such is Tom's blog and others like it.
http://www.a1e.ca/
this has histories/profiles/cards.
The BC consists of four people. Roger (Fly, Haven, Eddie, Damon) is the lead booker. Andy Gilkison (same), Phil (Big Dog and Richard Farnswirth) and myself (Irishred) make up the remainder of the BC. We float tons of ideas back and forth and take every angle or idea that is sent to us and use it as long as it reflects the votes. Even so we tweak the idea to only match with the votes.
The vote system has gotten a lot better. No one can vote for themselves anymore which I think helps a lot. In my time on the BC I haven't seen one vote overturned. I also believe this has only been done in very rare cases where obviously the vote was swayed by favoritism for one handler by a bloc.
I don't think there is as much negativity out there as there has been in the past. Is A1E flawed...sure it is. But some of the things I really like is I think that there currently is
#1 a great set of very talented handlers and writers
#2 A very nice set of checks and balances. I lead with my heart where Roger, Phil and Andy are more level headed. I tend to fight for all the little things. Roger never just lets something go. He is meticilous with his thought process on the card.
#3 There is a very open door policy between the handlers and the BC. I just wish it was utilized by handlers more. I know for a fact that not one of the BC members would ever say no to a handler who wanted to bitch, run ideas, ask questions or whatever.
I think that with an influx of new talent A1E could become not just a playground for a very talented group of people...but a great place for all handlers.
Shane
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